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Lauren Walker: [00:00:00] You're listening to Rhody Radio, Rhode Island Library Radio Online.
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Lauren: Hi, I'm your host Lauren Walker from the Rhody Radio crew and Coventry Public Library. For this episode, I spoke with Ken DeCosta of RISEUP up Paranormal. Last year, Ken gave a great presentation at the Coventry Public Library about RISEUP's decade-long series of paranormal investigations at Coventry's own Paine House Museum. It was as compelling as it was creepy, and I'm excited to share his stories with all of our Rhody Radio listeners.
Ken talks about RISEUP's Paranormal investigations at the Paine House, as well as how RISEUP began, and some advice for any amateur paranormal investigators out there. Hi, I'm Lauren Walker from the Rhody Radio crew and Coventry Public Library. I am here with Ken DeCosta from RISEUP Paranormal. He's going to talk about his paranormal investigations at the Paine House here in Coventry.
Ken DeCosta: Hi, Lauren. It's nice to be with you. Thank you for inviting me on.
Lauren: Yes, thanks for talking with me. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what RISEUP is and how you got started at the Paine House?
Ken: Yes, sure. RISEUP is an acronym really for the Rhode Island Society for the Examination of Unusual Phenomena. That's a mouthful, but it reflects our interest in these things because we delve into all areas of this, not just the typical haunted houses, but cryptozoology, ufology. If there's something weird and bizarre out there, we [00:02:00] want to hear about it. We've been a group since 2007. I've been doing this for 47 years now.
My interest in it, I guess, it's just the way some people are wired. I love a good mystery, and I love a good "who done it" and courtroom procedural shows, and things like that. The paranormal falls in that line because you're looking for answers, you're putting pieces of a puzzle together. I just gravitated toward the idea of there being something out there that people have a hard time explaining. It started as a kid, really.
Rather than just read stories in magazines and the few shows that were on TV, I wanted to know what it was like to actually go out and talk to these people and visit these places and see if we could document something that either confirmed or denied whatever the claims were if there's a reasonable explanation for it, to be able to present that to them. That's kind of what got me started.
As I said, in 2007, we put a group of like-minded people together. We come from all over the place, primarily from Rhode Island. We're based in Tiverton, actually. It's a great group of people who share those common goals and trying to go out and help people, when at all possible, make some kind of sense out of something unusual that may be going on.
Lauren: That's very cool. What [00:04:00] background do you and the other members of the group have that led you to this work?
Ken: That I think is the great thing about our group because we have people who are in the medical field. We have people with degrees in archaeology. I come from an engineering background. There are people who have a background in psychology and linguistics and things like that. I think that we all bring something a little bit different. We don't necessarily have a hive mentality on this.
We're all independent thinkers. We're all adults, probably most of us in our 40s, 50s, beyond. We're not in it just for a vicarious thrill or an adrenaline rush. What we try to do is apply whatever our backgrounds are into the research, and it really works well that way because we have an idea of what a location is like structurally and what could be causing noises and being able to recognize those things and really being able to take a deep, deep dive into the historical background of these places because when you've got what you want to claim as a haunting, there's got to be some players behind it.
It's like, "What makes this place haunted? Why would someone remain here?" It gives us a path to go on when we go into these places to know who might have lived there or what was here before the building. You can formulate a plan that sometimes goes sideways in a hurry but nonetheless to be able to go in with an idea of what it is that we want to accomplish. It's great to have people with different types of backgrounds to bring that particular discipline into [00:06:00] this process.
Lauren: Yes, that's definitely very cool. I don't know many other paranormal investigators, to be fair, but I don't know if it's common for them all to have that many varied backgrounds.
Ken: I think it helps, definitely. There are people who are just paranormal enthusiasts. There's nothing wrong with that. They're just curious, but when you dedicate your time to this, it can be very time-consuming and hours and hours of mind-numbing, boring nothing-going-on, so you have to really have your convictions to do this. It's not for everybody. A lot of people think it's the coolest thing in the world. After you've been on one or two investigations, a lot of folks just say, "Well, that's fine.
I'm good with this." It takes a little bit of patience and a little determination to stick with it, and sometimes you're rewarded. You get those tidbits here and there that seem to satisfy your curiosity, but on the other hand, it just provides you with more questions sometimes. It's the pursuit of those things and wanting to get more and more and more knowledge and information about what it is that's going on there because it's all about, at the end of the day, "What happens to us when we go? Is this it? Is there something beyond this?"
It's a question people have asked for millennia. There's nothing new with that. We just maybe take it one step further and just say, "Let's go find out and, along the way, help people who maybe have their own questions about it."
Lauren: What led you to the Paine House? [00:08:00] What makes it so special?
Ken: The Paine House, the first time we set foot in it was probably November of 2011. We knew someone who had an aunt who was a member there. I think that she was on the board of directors, and they were talking about this place. I remember driving by it years before that and said, "Wow, look at that place," jokingly saying, "I'll bet you that place is haunted. It just has the vibe."
I got a call from them saying that "My nephew had a conversation with you, would you like to come and check it out?" "Sure." We had a small handful of people that went up there one night. As we were taking the tour, Brenda Jacob, at the time was the vice president, she was showing us around. We had cameras going and things like that, just to document it, and immediately within 10 minutes picked up a child's voice and a woman's voice.
It's not something we heard, but we recorded and then when we played all this stuff back, that's when we heard it. There was a child's voice or a young girl or young woman's voice that said, "I hear them coming." Immediately, two things sprung to mind. "Number one, obviously, somebody is aware of our presence here, and number two, she seems to be alerting someone else to our presence. There might be multiple spirits here."
We were pretty intrigued by that. We went back for a couple of other investigations. At that time, we were doing these public events at different places. We've been doing them for a number of years: [00:10:00] Fort Adams in Newport, Belcourt Castle in New Port; and a couple of other places where we come in, take the public through, and raise some money for these places. We approached them if they wanted to do that, and they said, "Yes, it sounds great."
It was very well-received. People have had an absolute ball there and a multitude of experiences of their own, independent of ours. We always encourage people to make their own judgments on this place. That was 11 years ago, and we're still there because this house keeps providing us with some very provocative things. I like to think we've developed a relationship in that period of time not only with the House but whomever may come and visitation to that place because there is no question in our minds at all, in terms of what we've documented visually and audibly there, it's been a really amazing place.
Lauren: Wow, that must have been very surprising. It sounds like, usually, you have to listen to hours of a recording before you might hear something. To hear it right away, were you even ready for that?
Ken: You don't really have any expectations, and a lot of times, you'll go to places that have this incredible haunted history to it, and it can be underwhelming at times. I understand that because we're invited into people homes a lot. If you lived in a place for 30 years, and we come in for 6 hours, I don't expect everything that's ever happened to you to happen to us, just because we asked nicely.
It is surprising, the amount of [00:12:00] time you spend in these places, as opposed to what you get back that you can honestly say is evidential is pretty small. I think people get an unreal expectation when they watch shows that every time you walk in within 15 minutes, something happens, right? You hear a sound. The reality is something different than that. These things are actually very rare, which is why when we find a place like Paine House where there's a consistency to it, that's remarkable.
It really is because, in the amount of places we've done, and we've probably done 1,000, over those 11 years, maybe 10% or 15% of those present us with something that's really eye-opening because we're just collecting data, it's not evidence until you run it through a bunch of tests, whether it's voice analysis or just reviewing where everybody was to make sure it's not one of us that's talking.
When you go through that, and it's a painstaking process, when you eliminate everything that's mundane and come out with something, that's great. Obviously, that's what we're here for. The Paine House is one of those few places, and there are others, that there's a certain consistency to it. Maybe not every night but if it's 5 out of 10 visits, that's amazing.
Lauren: I know it's what you do, so probably you would be going into it a little bit less spooked than I would or someone else would, but do you ever get scared when you're there, or has anything ever happened that really scared you?
Ken: There's been nothing at this particular place, [00:14:00] and I would be less than honest, over the course of my adult life doing this, if I were to say, "Oh, nothing ever scared me." There's always going to be something occasionally that just happens that startles you. You're not quite human if it doesn't. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that you run screaming from the building or anything like that.
There are things happening where you see shapes and figures, or you hear something audibly out loud, a voice in the room that definitely gets your attention. I think you become as conditioned as you possibly can to those things the more time you spend because you never let your guard down. You understand that even a place that seems pretty calm can suddenly turn really quickly, but you have to manage your expectations.
Stay as objective as you can with that. It's easier said than done. There's no question about it. Whatever you think about a place or whatever you know about a place or anyone else's stories about a place, you got to do your best to just check those at the door and not let the power of suggestion take over your mind and put you on edge. You just come in and treat it like a space.
With the Paine House, in particular, we have been there so long and have had a certain contact with the people that are there right now that engage us from time to time that that's one of those places that seems very welcoming. People are very conversant there at times in our recordings [00:16:00] and so forth. It seems to be a welcoming thing because I think intention is everything.
Our intention is good, it's respectful. We want to learn a little bit more about the people there. We have a vast knowledge of the history of the place that I like to think is appreciated. It's not one of those places that we have to go in and sell with fear. It's just a matter of "You may have an opportunity tonight to experience something out of the ordinary. Take that for what it's worth. Not every place is like that." I've been to other places we've had things thrown at us, literally.
I videotaped it happening. I don't necessarily think it's something oppressive. We like to say if you were a jerk in life, you'll probably be one in death. If we retain our personality characteristics, we carry that over, "I think I'll just throw something at these people," but Paine House, too. It's one of those places. That's why we don't mind taking the public in because we feel it's a calm atmosphere, and if you come in, you're safe. You'll be fine. Just like any place we go, just be respectful, and things will work out for you.
Lauren: I think we probably all know some people who will still be jerks in the afterlife.
Ken: Yes, I do. The one thing that happened to me there that probably affected me most deeply was literally seeing a little girl float across the hallway in front of me, and we were there for maybe two or three years. A couple of our people came to me earlier, and they said, "It looked like a pair of legs [00:18:00] going underneath the dining room table, no torso, and it went in a certain direction."
Of course, they went back in there. There's nothing there. A little bit later on, not even thinking about that, I just went in that room and sat there to take a break. We had a pretty good crowd in the House that night. I just went in there by myself, and I hadn't even thought any more about what they'd seen. At the end of the hallway there, they had a room that was made up to look like maybe a 19th-century classroom.
I literally saw a little girl float across the hallway, maybe three feet tall. From the side, there was no acknowledgment of me. This is why I think I was just maybe tapping into something we call residual hauntings, and that's your typical ghost. You're tapping into something that happened in the past. They're not aware of you. They don't acknowledge you. They don't speak to you. She was just doing something that she'd probably done a thousand times before.
That was unnerving to me because I think, basically, it was a child, and immediately, your mind starts going like, "I hope she's with her family. I hope she's not lost. I hope she's not stuck here" because, being a parent, if you have any empathy in you at all, immediately that's what you're going to think of. When people came in, that was one of the times I just had to take a walk outside just to process what I had just seen because if you ever see an apparition like that, it affects you.
I know a lot of people go around and like "Hey, I saw a ghost," and they think it's great, and they're high-fiving. They probably have either [00:20:00] processed it already, or it never happened because, literally, when you see one, it's very much life-changing. That was an experience I had at the Paine House and the one probably that has stuck with me the longest.
Lauren: Yes, I can imagine that would be life-changing. That sounds crazy. Now, I'm guessing but I could be guessing wrong that maybe that was the same little girl that you heard on the recording. Do you know if there are multiple spirits there and who they might be?
Ken: I, absolutely, am convinced there are multiple spirits there. There are a couple of people who have a process that they go through, and through a series of knocks and bangs and taps, they can connect with the spirits there. This is just something that they've come into maybe in the last three years or so, and I wasn't aware of it. I've never seen anything like this in my life.
I'm not aware of anybody else that can do this. It is 100% legitimate because I've seen them do it on grass and dirt where there's just a thumping from the ground. We took our knowledge of Paine House, and we found that a lot of what we thought we knew is just not true. Through this communication process, when someone takes you into their former bedroom and shows you where their bed was located and tells you what color the walls were, this isn't the type of information you can get from a book.
This is emotional content. We found those people, one in particular, her name is Sarah Whipple. She is the daughter of a former lieutenant governor of the State of Rhode Island, [00:22:00] Thomas. With her is her husband, William, and her four-year-old daughter, Clara. Clara has always been called Sarah through the years. I think it first came from a psychic medium who said, "I'm sensing a Sarah. Well, you were almost right, but it's not a child."
The amazing thing about it, Lauren, is historical records document and confirm all of this, and we immediately go to the records. Through this series of taps and this process that they have, and they're very well-known for being able to do this now, Cody DesBiens and Satori Hawes, they were able to say, with conviction and confirmation, the day of their death, the fact that Sarah passed away and then two weeks later, her four-year-old daughter passed away, Clara.
I keep saying Cora, but I don't think that's her name, so you'll forgive me for that. We immediately thought there must have been some kind of illness that was being passed around Clara. I'm sorry, I keep saying Cora for some reason. It was Clara. Clara Whipple died at four years of age and right down to giving us the dates of their death. Louise Whipple, who is also another daughter of Thomas who passed away at the age of 19.
Looking back now and some of the things we've documented, I think we understand who it was that we recorded and was talking to us now. The benefit of that is now we can be more specific as far as addressing people, rather than the typical, "Is this a man? Is this a woman?" No, we'll walk in there now and just basically say, "Hi, Sarah. [00:24:00] It's us again. How are you? If you want to come out, if you want to speak to us or just stay with us here, follow us around the House."
We've got a lot more results out of that but to have that kind of process where you know that there are multiple spirits there and that they're not grounded or stuck there, you hear that a lot: spirits are stuck. No, they come in visitation there. It's a place that meant a lot to them because that was their home, and I think that's the difference between ghosts and spirits.
I think ghosts, for lack of a better word, ghosts tend to be grounded in one spot, whereas spirits have free will and can come and go as they please. We've seen this over only the last six months, really, at Paine House. This is a new phenomenon that's going on. We love the idea over the years that they've heard us, and they know our names. This is what I mean about building a relationship with a house. To have that confirmation that whatever we're doing there is good and it's being received well, it's a good feeling because you're still talking about people, just like we were. They're just in a different place.
Lauren: Do you think that they enjoy talking to you? What kinds of things do they say?
Ken: Oh, there's no question in my mind, they love it. Through this couple, Sarah said, "Finally, you can hear me." The coolest part about it is one of our people brought a couple of balloons in there one day, [00:26:00] a couple of Mylar balloons. One was red, and one was green, I guess. We were going to try to, "Hey, can you move the red one? Can you move the green one?" typical parlor tricks that I don't really like because spirits are not there for our entertainment, but we try to suggest some things in terms of communication.
When Mrs. Whipple, Sarah, came through, she literally started asking what those things were. We were trying to explain to somebody, who passed away in 1866, what a Mylar balloon is. "Why is it floating?" "Well, there's air in it," it's like, and then she just simply asked why. It's a good question. Why? Why do we have balloons? We were trying to explain that "Well, we do it for celebrations, for birthdays, for holidays."
I think she spelled out the word. She said "Very strange." My favorite times is when you have a spirit asking you a question because, in that time, they can see into our world and actually look around the area. It's really bizarre, and it's very, very hard to explain what these young people do, but you can catch them out there. On YouTube, they have videos, Cody DesBiens and Satori Hawes.
Satori's dad is Jason Hawes from TAPS and the Ghost Hunters TV show, and I know that they've demonstrated it on that particular show. I'm here to tell you it's 100% real, in a nice way, because we love them both, we've tried to trip them up and ask control questions, just so we can honestly say, [00:28:00] "This is mind-blowing." We've got all this information, but when you start having conversations with somebody who lived 225 years ago, that's incredible.
It is incredible because it's not just names and dates. Like I said, Lauren, it's emotional content there. What were they thinking? Like I say, "I don't like this color. It used to be green." It's just like, "Really? Where do you get that kind of information from?" Maybe we'll bring her a color chart next time we're in there, and she can just move something, and I'll pay for the paint. It's well worth it.
Lauren: Yes, bring some swatches from home [crosstalk] That's fun. Do you have any advice for any listeners who are interested in conducting their own paranormal investigations?
Ken: I assume that you mean, for example, if you think your own house is haunted or?
Lauren: Yes. We have this ghost-hunting kit that we loan out in our library. I've used it before at my friend's house, who's had some weird things happen, but I just don't think we had the attention span for it if I'm being honest like you said, a whole lot [crosstalk]
Ken: I understand.
Lauren: Do you have any advice for anyone who is looking into doing some personal investigating?
Ken: I would caution you on doing it in your own home, and there are two reasons. One is probably the obvious reason, and everybody says this: because you never know what you're inviting in or giving permission to remain there. When you suddenly reach out and acknowledge whatever might be there, a lot of times, that can be an [00:30:00] invitation for more. That's definitely a possibility.
The other reason that I would caution against it, though, is I've seen examples where people become obsessed with it. They'll see what we do. I've gone to homes for a follow-up, and when I walk in, suddenly, they've got a couple of meters and a recorder and a camera and everything like that that they became so enthralled with it that they went out and ordered this stuff on their own.
Some of this stuff doesn't do what they think it does. It doesn't detect ghosts, meters that light up with lights. They're not designed to detect ghosts, but I've seen instances where someone spends hours on end sitting at the kitchen table with a recorder going, trying to do EVP, electronic voice phenomena, where you're trying to record the voices of spirits that are there.
I just tell those folks, "It's a nice day, go for a walk. Don't suddenly become a prisoner of this because I've seen people become obsessed by it like, 'I want to get a recording. I want to prove I'm not crazy. I want to confirm this.'" They'll spend an inordinate amount of hours in their home doing this instead of doing something that maybe is a little bit more productive, or even living your life because, even us as a group, this is what we do, but it doesn't define who we are.
As people, we all have other interests, whether that's kids or school or [00:32:00] jobs, whatever it is, it's not a constant thing on our minds. We get away from it. Those are probably the two reasons. I wouldn't say not to do it, but I would just exercise caution for those two reasons. If you want to, if you really want to do something like this, I would suggest you hit the internet, find someone who's reputable who's done this for a long time.
I get a lot of these calls where people just say, "Okay, I want to get into this. What is it I should be thinking about?" My first answer is not to be famous, not to get on TV. I know that's the template these days but just do good for the right reasons. If you keep those two things in mind, you'll probably have a good time doing this because there's nothing wrong with having fun doing it.
It's just, take what you do seriously, stay safe, don't do crazy things like going into abandoned buildings or condemned buildings or going on trespassing on private property and things like that, just to satisfy whatever itch you have to be a ghost hunter. Do it for the right reasons, and don't just do it for the thrill of it because that'll get old in a hurry.
Lauren: Well, and it sounds like it's, in the moment, not always super thrilling, anyway.
Ken: Yes, there's not a lot of these groups that have been put together. When Ghost Hunters started in 2004, I'm embellishing this, but there's maybe 20 [00:34:00] groups in the United States. Within two years, there's 250,000. Probably, there's a million now. It made it okay to talk about this stuff because this was always a taboo subject, but because now it's in the public consciousness and it's big in pop culture, people feel a little more at ease to speak of these things, which is great, which is fine.
If you want to do this type of thing, you really have to decide if it's for you or not and why it is that you're doing it because this is why a lot of these groups, you see people coming and going from them, personnel, if you will. They've had enough, or there's some kind of conflict, personality conflicts, things like that. We have been together as a group for a long time now because we just work past that where we don't have those little gut stops, the drama that comes with it.
We have people that are legitimately interested in helping people out and answering their own questions. If you're going to go out and do it, answer those questions first before you spend a lot of money on equipment, and that's probably the last thing. You don't need to do that. Don't break the bank just because something looks cool out there and you saw it on television. It's not necessary.
Lauren: If anyone wants to go to the Paine House and experience one of those investigations with professionals like yourselves, is that something that goes on regularly, those tours?
Ken: Yes, we usually run it from May to October because they do close the House down in the winter. [00:36:00] I think at this point, you'll probably air this by the time. We did the September one, but there is one more in October. You can get or make reservations through this, through the Western Rhode Island Civic and Historical Society. Go to their website and I guess they have an event menu, and we're listed in that with the available dates to go to the Paine House and join us. I can't guarantee ghosts, but I can guarantee a few laughs. I can guarantee some honesty. If this is your thing, it's a great way to spend a Saturday night.
Lauren: How long do those usually last?
Ken: We go from about 7:00 to 11:00 PM. We try to get into it right away rather than have these six, eight-hour type of things that go on and try to keep it concise and palatable and, most importantly, affordable for people. It's $35 to do this, and for these type of things, that's incredibly reasonable.
Lauren: Does any of that go to the Paine House, the proceeds?
Ken: Yes, 100% of the money that we get from these investigations, we're volunteering our time, it all goes to the maintenance and upkeep of the Paine House, which is a place that is just absolutely beautiful and iconic. I love what they have done with the inside to make it look like there are actually people living there. The way they've furnished it, the donations of furniture and different items they get, [00:38:00] it is, without question, a living museum, and they've done a wonderful job there as a society.
The monies that we generate go back into the House. We've been happy to do that for the last 11 years. It's become a second home to us. It is well worth your effort. Anybody who does go, know that every cent of what you spend is going to a great cause, a nonprofit society, a 501(c)(3), and they're doing it out of love, and I guess so are we, because we never want to see this place be anything other than what it currently is.
Lauren: That's really great. Is there anything else that you want to add that I haven't asked you about yet about either RISEUP or the Paine House or anything?
Ken: No. Just know that you can reach us at riseupparanormal.com if you just want to chat or maybe there's something going on in your life. We're not just tour guides. We're an actual group. We are doing, currently, quite a bit. We're pretty busy right now, and we've just agreed to do a series of events at a place in Rhode Island that everybody probably knows by now that's called The Conjuring House.
We are going to be doing some things there as well. Primarily, we're a Rhode Island-based group, and a lot of people may not know who we are because we don't throw ourselves parades. We stay under the radar, but if anything comes up, you can reach us there or on Facebook. There's contact information there. [00:40:00] Even if it's just to ask a question about something or just to stop by and say hello, you're welcome to do that. You can also catch us on our YouTube channel.
It's called Dead Air Full Spectrum. We do a show every Sunday night, but there is programming through the week there that revolves around the paranormal and the field, in general, so a lot more information on there. Feel free to pop in and chat, say hello. We've always joked that and this is true, they know better who we are in England than they do in Rhode Island, isn't that weird? It's true. It's true nonetheless. We're proud to be lifelong residents of Rhode Island, and no other place on Earth I'd rather be. That's the truth.
Lauren: Nice. Very nice sentiment to end on. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about the Paine House investigations. I hope that our listeners check out your YouTube page and your Facebook page, and also check out the Paine House because it's always good to support local history. Thank you.
Ken: Absolutely. It's been my pleasure, Lauren. Thank you.
Lauren: After our interview, Ken shared with me a couple of EVP or electronic voice phenomena recordings from the Paine House. These are recordings where in the moment they didn't hear anything but later discovered voices on the recordings. You'll have to listen closely as the ghostly voices are pretty faint in comparison to the voices of the investigators asking questions.
In this first recording, the RISEUP investigators play a little game with the little girl's spirit to test her cognitive abilities. When she's asked for the next letter in the alphabet, she clearly replies.
Speaker 1: When I say C, then you say?
Speaker 2: D.
Lauren: [00:42:00] In the next recording, the group is in the attic of the Paine House, and two investigators ask if whoever is with them prefers that they leave, and the voice replies, "No one needs to leave."
Speaker 1: Do you want us to leave?
Speaker 3: No one needs to leave.
Lauren: It's pretty spooky stuff, and I will say that when I watch shows on TV like Ghost Adventures, I'm always very skeptical because, with a TV show, you can make anything happen and pretend that it's real. They could be making the recordings themselves or just acting like something spooky happened. It's not reliable. After talking with Ken, though, I do think that he and the rest of RISEUP are sincere, and their evidence seems pretty compelling.
I encourage you to visit www.riseupparanormal.com and listen to their other EVP recordings or join them on a tour to form your own conclusions. Thank you for listening. The Paine House is open for tours May through October, weather permitting; Fridays and Saturdays, 10:00 AM to 2:00 PM; and select Sundays, 1:00 PM to 4:00 PM. Tours are $6 for adults and $4 for children.
All proceeds go directly toward the maintenance of the museum. For more information visit westernrihistory.org or facebook.com/painehousemuseum. For more information about RISEUP Paranormal and their investigations, visit riseupparanormal.com or find them on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/riseupparanormal. You can find Ken's Dead Air Podcast on YouTube at youtube.com/c/deadairfullspectrum.
Rhody Radio is proud to be a resident partner of the Rhode Island Center for the Book and brought to you by library staff and community members all around the Ocean State. You can find more from Rhody Radio on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. [00:44:00] If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe to Rhody Radio and give us a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen, to help us reach more Rhode Islanders.
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